But that still requires 2nd Ave to be built first. Construction commenced on Contract 2 on March 4, 1903. Viaducts where possible. Perhaps you are discounting the Fulton St. Well then what are we waiting for? And reworking Lafayette/Atlantic and Montague is all extra card shuffling that wont help Utica Ave riders anymore when they could just take the IRT express AS IS and be done with it. Going further the stations could even be built by private developers who would get a height bonus for building the station. The station's other fare control area has two staircases going down to each platform, a crossover, part-time turnstile bank and customer assistance booth, high entry/exit turnstiles that provide full-time access to and from the station, and two staircases going up to either side of Fulton Street between Stuyvesant and Schenectady Avenues. Split track areas. Late nights/weekends the 4 will go to Kings Plaza. proposal for a subway stretch closer in on Jamaica Ave. 6. [23], The station's full-time exit is at the east end (railroad south) of the platforms. Knowing the reality of MTA construction I would argue that the second plan is the preferable option. Parkchester on the 6. Finnaly, the A/C Utica Av station is directly under Utica Av. Extending Utica north of Eastern Parkway should only ever be done if trains in Williamsburg are beyond capacity and a new East River crossing is needed. They are not evenly shared. You are correct that the larger option would require shutting down service which is one reason Im in favor of the smaller option. Replace the most cumbersome and unattractive of existing el structures with and Park Aves commuter train viaduct looks good all the time. For example, why build a Lafayette Av branch off of Crosstown when instead a cheap connection between the (G)/(J)/(M) could be built at Broadway. Existing abandoned portions: Part of a station for 2 tracks and two side platforms. There was a gas station, a gift shop, and Valentine's diner in the post. I agree using Worth has disadvantages. BED-STUY, BROOKLYN A person was hit and killed by a train at Utica Avenue station in Bed-Stuy on Wednesday morning, according to the MTA and FDNY. Now we reach Utica Ave. The Livonia Avenue branch line, known as Route No. Whats needed for this to work, however, is the rebuilding of the Rogers Junction, the junction of the trunk and the Nostrand Ave Line at Franklin Ave. Now for the second option. But what Im proposing, and what Im sure no City plan would dare propose, is that the line not run above the center of the avenue such as existing elevated but rather along private land on the west side of the street. Anyway: I think that lots of expansions where there is no ROW to just place cars on, instead could be put into service as light rail (granted there are no obstacles like narrow roads and triggered politicians who cause everything to stop working) could be a nice supplement to the subway (free transfers too!) I often speak with other fantasy transit designers about Utica and the IND plan seems to be the favorite and for good reason. The incident happened inside the Utica Avenue subway station in Brooklyn on Christmas Eve. When you were envisioning your Montague Tunnel connection did you explore a Hanson Place route as an alternative? 14 St. W 14 St and 7th Ave, W 13 St and 7th Ave, W 12 St and 7th Ave. Two island platforms. Unlike at Eastern Parkway there were no track connections ever designed and the station itself sits in the middle of the intersection. Additionally, the Fulton-Utica service would have to be local only with an awkward transfer at Utica Ave station. In May 2014, MTA installed three elevators: one near the intersection of Utica Avenue and Fulton Street, connecting the mezzanine to the street, and two elevators connecting the platforms to the mezzanine. MTA Bus - B14/B17 - Eastern Pkwy & Utica Av. It will be express. Crime Statistics (PDF) Crime Statistics (Excel) Contact Information. South of Kings Highway would be stations at Flatlands Ave, Ave N and after the line turns down Flatbush Ave, at Ave U-Kings Plaza. Ive thought of three more elevated footprint lightening techniques; these are all actually in use right now: 9. By the way Vanschnooken, I really like your operations-focused outlook; I like that you used your custom track map as a base for all of the ideas you proposed, since tweaking your operations is usually a lot cheaper and effective in the long run. With it both 2/3 trains would only go to Brooklyn College while 5 trains would serve the local stations, Nostrand Ave, Kingston Ave, and Utica Ave before turning south to Kings Plaza, while 4 trains would stay express to Utica Ave and take over service to New Lots. 127 Utica Avenue Brooklyn, NY, 11213-2338. Thank you. Given the upfront costs of building it that seems like a waste (yes, 2nd Ave only hits that with the Q but it is at least designed to add the T later on). Subway, local and express station, ADA accessible. The Manhattan plans remained the same, but the line east from South 4th Street would continue on only to Marine Park via Utica Ave. Even today Utica makes too much sense. I was talking with someone at the MTA and they mentioned that the planners were playing with the idea of building the relay along side the Bay Ridge because there was more space/cheaper than extending a tunnel south. The station opened on August 23, 1920, as part of an extension of the IRT Eastern Parkway Line by the Interborough Rapid Transit Company. Trains are one of the oldest forms of transportation out there, which means abandoned depots are scattered all across the country. But boring tunnels is much more common these days. 8. But this does not deal with the immediate needs of those that live along Utica Ave. Building an extension of the IRT could be opened long before the section through northern Brooklyn and would have immediate benefits by serving more riders with direct service rather than requiring transferring. But you are right, at G/J/M/Z transfer would be best! Rolling back to the more germane silliness, I think Ive sniffed out a problem with the proposed local (2, 3) and express (4, 5) split the lower cost workout will lead to. Kind of surprising the Fulton line was left out of it. On the opposite side, from Eastern Parkway to Empire Blvd, the slope descends 66 feet. At Utica Avenue, provisions were made for a transfer to the proposed Utica Ave line. Use upside down flying buttresses (floating buttresses?). The first instance I can find of a proposal for Utica comes from a NY Times article in 1913 where residents were debating the best route. The 2 track Worth St Line would require a 3.15 mile tunnel from Tribeca to Williamsburg. This station has two fare control areas, one at either end. And theres no room there for it. Eliminating the bottleneck and interlining will improve frequency at Franklin so the transfer wont take too long. Now we dont want that, do we? A hybrid of 1 and 6: The el is still over roadway Artwork here was made in 1996 by Jimmy James Green and is called Children's Cathedral. The gritty, graffiti-ridden New York City subway system is quite a character in Joker. [7] The first section opened on January 9, 1908, extending the subway from Bowling Green to Borough Hall. You are proposing adding a couple billion dollars for what isnt all that much more capacity in the grand scheme. And D, when the line is being built, less lanes will have to be teared up. Also, that wasnt a smart move, moving the 3 and 5 so that all local trains past Franklin Av are linked up together, and all express trains past Franklin Av are linked until Utica, except ones local and the others still express.Most passangers at Flatbush Av( I should know, this is part of my daily commute) Have a design contest; results Contract 2 extended the original line from City Hall in Manhattan to Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn. A BMT/IND line would cost more because its farther away, meaning more track mileage and a bigger cost, possibly raising the Metrocard fare to $3.00 for one ride. If we are going to think outside the box, we ust consider the people who will be having trains running through their buildings while a stop is not even placed within walking distance. And D as well if cut-and-cover is used. Is it correct that Culver has connections in place for the 8th Ave line? Its an extremely clever plan that I and many other would have never of came up with but there are some wholes that are worth being built up. I like the basic idea. This seems right as Fulton intersects cross-streets at that angle. This would boost capacity and turn around time on the entire 7th Ave express line. Connecting the currently planned SAS to Fultons local tracks involves building zero junctions and minimal interlining. [21], This underground station serves local and express trains in a two-level layout with two island platforms. In 2001, an empty lot at Avenue N and Utica Avenue marked a trolley layup area that still hadn't been built on. The Utica Avenue subway would bring new rapid transit service to parts of Crown Heights . The one on the west (railroad north) is staffed weekdays only and accessed via a wide staircase in place of the end wall of the New Lots Avenue-bound platform. But another perk is that we dont have to worry about A or B div standards And thats a jump I dont think we could ever make. There are also some windows in this level. Its not a great idea but I was going off what I heard. So feeding more traffic into LEX which is so crowded while it actually misses the work destinations for most of these new riders might not be the best way to go. The second is a simple addition of new switches which is what Im going with. Better to have SAS Williamsburg via the 9th St storage tracks and SAS Fulton local as the obvious trunk line that needs new capacity. I think I can solve that problem and still have a train servicing East NY&Brownsville, Mill Basin, and Flatbush/East Flatbush. Secondly is that the IND plan, like most of their plans, was wildly over designed and would require extra miles of subway from Eastern Parkway to the Lower East Side as well as a much wider 4 track trunk line instead of the IRTs proposed 2/3 track line (much like the New Lots branch the line would have been built with 2 tracks and space for a third to be added later). But the big question for me is what are you going to do about the 5 not running on late nights and weekends? A 2 track line would only require half the space, 45 feet and with 100ft lots this leaves room for an ingenious workaround. In IND reports it was proposed to have the line remain as a subway until Ave J where it would ascend to the surface and run elevated, originally to Sheepshead Bay, then later a more simplified route down Flatbush Ave to Floyd Bennett Field. And this is exactly what you or I would do in their shoes. . I just disagree with a Worth St subway being the best choice, since unlike the Second Avenue tracks, the Eighth Av local does have capacity constraints in the railroad north direction (both CPW local and 53 St have two services each, which is about as much as you want to push on a pair of tracks before service gets too unreliable). The storage/layup tracks ends with bumper blocks on both ends, with a switch to the northbound express track on its west end and a switch to the southbound express track on the east end.[8][7]. F,L,M all times except late nights, 1,2. 34 St- Penn Station. More complicated than it needs to be. This station's mezzanine and exterior can be seen in various points of 6ix9ines music video for the song "Kooda". [16], The IRT Eastern Parkway Line was built as part of Route 12 from 1915 to 1918. As you point out, the area already has subway service. Awkward transfer? As someone wiser than I recently put it: Ultimately a project with a higher up front price tag will be an invaluable investment that will pay dividends far into the future.. The Independent Subway System (IND or ISS), formerly known as the Independent City-Owned Subway System (ICOSS) or the Independent City-Owned Rapid Transit Railroad (ICORTR), was a rapid transit rail system in New York City that is now part of the New York City Subway. Im more in support of an IRT Utica Avenue subway and now you made a Rogers Junction plan clear. This configuration would have other benefits as the riders who are now coming from furthest away have default express trips while the 7th Ave Express-Eastern Parkway Local 2/3 trains can now have more even headways, reducing delays. Noise complaints, and B46 would have to be detoured. Doesnt matter. Last but not least, are the 2 and 3 doing skip stop? These technological limitations were shortly overcome and the only IRT line that doesnt use part of this original line is the 7 which is limited by the Steinway Tunnel. is still only two flights up. While cost is an obvious reason for building an elevated over a subway there are also geological concerns in this area as the land through which Utica Ave runs has a very high water table and very sandy soil. Place station house under tracks in median. The New Lots branch of the IRT ascends to the surface right after it leaves Eastern Parkway (due very much to the terrain) and it would make sense that the IRT would have the Utica Line do the same. (Plans for a Utica Ave. subway in 1969 involved extending the IRT instead of the IND.) Jamaica Center would probably be a notch or two higher if it had been designed as terminal and could handle all E train runs. So are you proposing adding a branch that runs north of Eastern Parkway to Fulton St? Youre less likely to be the goat. Bring line to ground at terminal. Click to email a link to a friend (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window), The Future of the Green Line: From Harvard and Needham to the Seaport, Unbuilt Highways of New York City and Robert Moses. We have a new formula for success: were going to aim for an average team height of 5 3. But what this plan does is allow for a new and better city to grow around the line rather than be divided by it. IRT Utica only needs a simple switch added to Rogers Junction to start running. But I think it was for a different one than the four you give. Theyll meet up down the road. Also if most people are going to midtown (which Id argue given the census data I show isnt the case) then there is nothing in the way of this with the new routing. In fact Id discount any curve adjacent to a station by about 50%. 31, is a three-track elevated line. It was the result of a partnership between the Hopi tribe and a group of Route 66 aficionados who are dedicated to preserving the heritage of this iconic road. Some of your points might show good benefits of IRT use but only in part. In the 1929 plan, one set of tracks would have led down Stuyvesant Ave., crossing the IND Fulton St. Line at Utica Ave. where another shell station and some unused mezzanines live and continuing down Utica Ave. and to Marine Park. Eastern Parkway & Utica Avenue. Maybe place one of the Ls tracks in the cut and the other over it at street level? Abandoned Stations List; . CBTC will raise it higher and the E trains route is already budgeted for that in both Manhattan and Queens. Then you can continue trains on into Brooklyn. [31], For the station at Utica Avenue and Fulton Street, see, Elevator at northwest corner of Utica Avenue and Eastern Parkway, in Eastern Parkway median, Last edited on 30 November 2022, at 09:22, Utica Avenue station (IND Fulton Street Line), "Facts and Figures: Annual Subway Ridership 20142019", "Subway to Brooklyn Opened for Traffic; First Regular Passenger Train Went Under the East River Early This Morning. Less light-blocking like 5 but vertical. From the South 4th St station to Eastern Parkway is another 3 miles which would parallel the existing J/M/Z trains. Meaning that in order for a IND to run down Utica Av, Utica Av would have to be destroyed and rebuilt around the same area of the 3/4 station. I also dont believe in using provisions for the sake of using provisions; S 4 St (the actual street parallel to Broadway) was never fully completed, so building a subway using that old path would be wildly expensive. Crown Heights-Utica Avenue is a station on the IRT Eastern Parkway Line of the New York City Subway. are refurbished as well as adopted in new construction. hunting lodge motif with crossbeams. The point is that anything involving using an extension of B Division is more complicated, for no reason, than just extending the IRT. There is a very good argument to be made that building the Worth St-Williamsburg section would alleviate traffic on the L train and serve a growing jobs center around Hudson Sq in lower Manhattan. And actually Flushing/Main might be up to 11th now depending on how much traffic SAS has pulled off of Lexington. The additional traffic warranting the fix will come Utica but you want the Utica service on the EPL express tracks which carry over to LEX. By the early 1920s, its population had swelled to more than 10,000. The Board of Rapid Transit Commissioners approved the route on September 27, 1900,[6] and the contract was signed on September 11, 1902. Freeway-style concrete pillars. While both the Eastern Parkway and Fulton Lines were designed for future Utica Ave expansion the Fulton Line was designed to have Utica as a separate line entirely while Eastern Parkway was designed to have Utica branch off. Most of the subway system in New York City no longer has that feel . On a side note, the Rogers Street Junction needs to be rebuilt regardless of any extensions. 4. Given that the L is now the busier of the two lines and needs relief, badly, it would be much more sensible IMO to go east across E 7 St to stations at Tompkins Square Park, Metropolitan/Bedford, Hope/Union (G) (L), Humboldt/Montrose (L), and Myrtle Av (J)(M)(Z), to provide a faster alternative to the L. I dont really think theres much value in duplicating Broadway services just because S 4 St exists. If that happens, either the A or C would have to go that way. It will extend easterly from Buffalo avenue and Eastern parkway via East 98th street and Livonia avenue to New Lots avenue. This is to avoid overcrowding issues at Franklin/Nevins, and to provide more alternatives along each corridor. And that nine has the corresponding capacity of 12 A Division runs. The only And stations wouldnt be possible if elevated. Four side platforms. I will say that the Utica stop spacing is fine; its not any wider than the Queens Boulevard local and it stops at every intersecting street with a frequent bus connection. On the other hand, your SAS plans involve building at least two complicated junctions to active tracks (including one under the East River) and lots of reliability-tanking interlining. Wilson Ave. Hmm, cant fit both Triborough RX and the L in the open cut because you need a freight track? Same dilemma as if underground. In 1977, the fight to save Utica Union Station and the Adirondack Railway's plans to reopen the abandoned Utica-Lake Placid line prompted formation of the Utica & Mohawk Valley Chapter. In the Bronx the Grand Concourse Subway was designed to at least compete with the Jerome Ave elevated if not eventually replace it and in Brooklyn the Fulton St Subway was built to replace the Fulton El out to Queens with provisions built to allow a connection with the Jamaica Ave elevated. The first plan offers the highest operational flexibility and allows a continuation of both local and express trains to access Nostrand Ave but would cost close to $1 billion and require extensive excavation. I-beams and could be outfitted as faades on older structures as they And on what route? Gov. The Canarsie and Myrtle Lines. from those two subway stations With more TPH there will be less crowding at Franklin or Nevins. The important thing about the shorter option is that installing these switches could be done overnight or over a weekend and wouldnt require long term, disruptive construction. Although not in the official report, soon after it was proposed to connect 14th St to Utica Ave.